What is telementation? How can it solve a lot of the problems in our life? Join Jason Hartman and Jeffrey Grupp, host of Zen Flower Radio and author of “Telementation,” as they discuss empirical evidence that the world is a designed world, whether it’s God creating the matter of the universe or humans creating the matter of their immediate environment, to the minutest degree. Jeffrey Grupp was born in Michigan in 1970. He is currently residing in Ann Arbor, MI. His professions are author, radio talk show host, and college teacher at a school in the Ann Arbor, MI area. Jeffrey is a former college instructor at Grand Valley State U, Western Michigan, Purdue (branch campuses) and Jackson Community college, teaching philosophy and religion, and more specifically teaching Eastern philosophy, ethics, metaphysics, and Buddhism. He is currently teaching philosophy at a small college close to his home and continues to author books on philosophy and religion.
Introduction: Welcome to the Solomon Success Show where we explore the timeless wisdom of King Solomon and the Bible as it relates to business and investing, false profits, and get-rich quick schemes are everywhere. Let’s not be distracted by these instead let’s go to the Source, the eternal principles that create a life of peace, power and prosperity, here is our host Jason Hartman.
Jason Hartman: Welcome to the Solomon Success Show. This is your Jason Hartman where we talk about Biblical principles applied to business and investing learning from King Solomon of course and we will back with a fantastic guest for you in just a moment here, but be sure to visit our website solomonsuccess.org or solomonsuccess.com. Take advantage of our extensive blog library and our free content. I think you will find some fantastic things there so be sure to visit us on the web at solomonsuccess.com.
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Jason Hartman: My pleasure to welcome Jeffrey Grupp to the show. Today we are going to be talk about philosophy and hidden knowledge. We’re going to be talking about his journey from being an atheist to a Christian and also becoming very interested in some of the Buddhist philosophies and some interesting perspectives on how they relate to Christianity so I will think you will enjoy this show and Jeff welcome how are you?
Jeff: I’m great. Thanks for having me on the show today.
Jason Hartman: Good, my pleasure. Tell us about your evolution if you will. You’re coming to us from Ann Arbor Michigan today right?
Jeff: Yes.
Jason Hartman: Great and you teach at the local college there and maybe teaching at a big university soon.
Jeff: Yeah may be at a big school in the future one I always wanted to teach at.
Jason Hartman: Well, tell us about your journey if you would.
Jeff: Okay specifically with respect to the atheism to the Christianity, well let’s talk about that in a little bit of detail. I was raised as a Christian and I went to what I now would call some pretty distasteful churches which did not have god perspective and grasp on the Bible. They were very — I don’t know if you want to use the word erroneously fundamentalist, but it was just not a good upbringing I had with Christianity was painful, mentally I would say. I — that fueled in a lot of ways me becoming very dramatic atheists probably around the age of 20 I think it was, and this lasted into my 30s, and now looking back I remember saying during those years I love being atheist I feel free because of it. Now, looking back there was a lot of depression, but I didn’t admit and a lot of confusion and sadness about it, and so forth, but what’s most interesting is how I went from this very fervent atheist philosophy. I really believed it. I mean I really to the core I thought it was true, but I was also an empiricist in my academic training. Now I teach philosophy as you know and in my academic training a very strong element of it was the philosophy of empiricism and that’s where you only believe the only things that you believe to be true are those that you can experience. Okay not necessarily things you could see to experience, but those you can experience so Saint Paul on the road to Damascus has experience of, a supernatural experience of the Holy Spirit that would be an empirical experience because it’s a aspect of his experience so it doesn’t have to be just be something of the physical world, but anyways so it rejects things and totally only accept things that I’m going to experience. This is the basis of science as well, so I always said during my atheist years I will follow where it goes. If empirical evidence exists for god I will change my view, and little bits of evidence started coming in during my mid-20s and then especially my early 30s a huge amounts of evidence which are very, very interesting. Let me just tell what some of those are quickly here. I became a very, very strict Buddhist and then in the — in my 20s. And I was really into it for various reasons which are not important now it’s very exciting for me to be into it. I did a lot of mediation. It really worked well, and I had a lot of experiences in some my more productive times of meditation. Well, later on I said you know that was — it was the presence of they talk about this is the Holy Spirit and the Bible or god that it those experience that were quite similar. Its something it just seem like that was the only appropriate words in the Holy Spirit for example to put on those experiences, but I always denied it because I was so excited about my being an atheist and so forth, that I never really, I always put it out of my mind even though it was very obvious that was going on so. Anyway that happened various times and then I’m into my 30s I kept the same attitude but I started uncovering some pretty interesting scientific information which for some odd reason it does not make it into the churches, doesn’t make it into the universities, and people basically just don’t know that it exists, and I can sum up what it is. I’m a huge reader. I read everything all over the place, and this is I found some of the stuff in some books that are not discussed on Oprah Winfrey and so forth so therefore not there many people know about them. But basically what I found in some of these books is there are patterns in nature which are absolutely nonrandom. You know numbers that repeat to such a degree that they shouldn’t be repeating the way they do like, and the very significant numbers like the number 216, or 864 or 8-6-4 that’s the first three letters of the diameter of the sun for example 216 the moon is 2160 miles across. There’s — the various numbers just showing up over and over, and over and over which was really interesting because they were very spiritual numbers, and then I found out that also the golden ratio which is — to put it as simply as possible is the mathematical pattern which is not a random pattern. It doesn’t spontaneously emerge on some mathematical system.
Jason Hartman: It does emerge in nature though. I mean the golden ratio is I think that’s about a two thousand, twenty five hundred year old discovery and that does appear in nature of things that are pleasing to the eye, right?
Jeff: Absolutely. It’s not something that like pie that just emerges out the circles. Its part of the mathematical pattern, you know its something that doesn’t need to be anywhere so that it shows up all over the nature. It’s very, very interesting. Now, the point here is that it shows up absolutely everywhere. It shows up the first pattern in quantum physics ever found in the in the quantum energy, the quantum particles perfectly exhibited golden ratio. This was discovered about a year ago, and then all the way up, you know its all through our nature, the structure of our faces gravitates towards the golden ratio of our fingers, hands, teeth, feet, our arms you know pine cone, sunflowers all throughout our world and then all the way go up to the galaxies most of the spiral galaxy is amazingly exhibit the golden ratio structure so it’s very interesting that things are structured this way. You have a pattern that doesn’t need to be there that like I said it’s not just a product of mathematical systems or so. It has to be that you can say that pie is part of the circle so therefore it’s this interesting number pie shows that the circle is intelligently designed. Now that does make sense. But it has to be there as part of the mathematical system of circle. You know the golden ration it doesn’t need to be there so that it shows up everywhere in nature more so to speak I don’t know how else to explain that except that these the items in nature have been designed by some super intelligence that has the ability to design everything that’s the definition of god.
Jason Hartman: You’ve claimed that I mean people make these unconvincing arguments about the existence of god.
Jeff: Yes.
Jason Hartman: Is this what you’re getting at? Is this is the convincing argument versus what most people say faith and a feeling and in that type of thing, right?
Jeff: Yeah most people will say and I agree actually what they are saying here they’ll say I saw a tree, and it’s so amazing that the tree can exist. How could it be anything, be anything, but the product of an all-powerful loving creator? And I agree with that, but the problem is it if you go, try to argue a university professor an atheist or something they are going to bury you. It’s simplest argument to defend because they can easily explain it through their theoretical concepts of evolution that they think are real. So the golden ratio and various aspects of our solar system and things like there’s this aspects of DNA which are shockingly indicative of tremendous design there’s another one I should probably touch on that quick that the non-coding DNA in humans is called the junk DNA, where reports are that has been found to have codes in it. This was discovered. It was published in the science magazine, the most prestigious academic science magazine in the world in 1993. How could it be that the junk DNA the non-coding DNA perfectly has an incredibly complex code which shows up an other aspects of nature such as the rudimentary levels of human language? This is design. There is no other explanation that things are designed ever so there’s — this is just drop empirical proof that everything is designed in our whole — anybody who is believing this that the non-empirical thesis that nature is random or there’s a fatalistic nature where the environment creates you and you have no power over it for example. I mean these are really bad ideas in the sense that they are not empirical, but they also lead to psychologically a big mess in the person. I mean the hopeful situation here is the one we’re talking about where there is a loving presence behind everything and we can prove it now. It’s really a powerful thesis.
Jason Hartman: It’s interesting when you talk to the scientific community and you hear the reviews on stuff, and then you consider it as opposed to religion, creation and/or intelligent design. Those are all slightly different I understand, but all of those scientific people seem like they can explain everything pretty well except you’ve got to give them one huge exception, and that is the big bang.
Jeff: Yeah.
Jason Hartman: You got to give them this giant, giant mulligan, and if somehow that just occurred you know it wasn’t my design. It wasn’t created by a creator according to them, but they can’t deal with that one at all and it seems that if you want to argue things on an intellectual level maybe pre-everything you said today and you’re going to say in this interview and your works and the works of other people who are along the same lines as you. The only honest answer could be agnostic because really you can say you don’t know, but I don’t think you can say with any degree that it’s not true. Being an atheist just seems like a crazy idea to me. I don’t know how someone can reconcile being an atheist.
Jeff: Well, atheism is actually a logical absurdity. And I’m not saying that to be funny. I teach logic. I taught earlier today at the small college near my house that I teach, and there’s — we go through all kinds of different fallacies and logical absurdities that have been known about for thousands of years among us —
Jason Hartman: Are you teaching intro to logic?
Jeff: Yeah.
Jason Hartman: Of course yeah I remember that in colleges. Great, great course.
Jeff: Yeah it’s my favorite class. There is a fallacy called the informal fallacy of ignorance and the term don’t worry about the name. It’s the word ignorance is not there to be funny or anything. It’s just that the name has been passed on for centuries, but it basically says if you don’t have evidence for something you can’t make a claim about it. So for example I can’t say there is no extraterrestrial life on any other planet anywhere because I haven’t been there. I need to go there before I make the claim so I have to be agnostic about it I would say I don’t know if there’s alien life or not because that’s what my evidence leads to say I’m not sure. Now that has to be you can’t be an atheist because if you are, you commit the informal fallacy of ignorance because if you say god does not exist. What you’re making it claim about something you have no evidence for because if you can’t prove god doesn’t exist then you’re making a claim that you can’t verify so therefore you’re making a claim about something you can’t verify. And it is definitely the case that if you ask any atheist, the most sophisticated atheist out there like the one, the Austin Atheist Community is a bunch of very sophisticated graduate students that are part of an atheist community. They will say — they will agree to this. They will say really we can’t say atheism is a claim. It just has to be basically some kind of loose. They try to get around this issue, but it leads right to the position that you can’t hold the claim of atheism because you’re making claims about that which you can’t verify so agnosticism is the only alternative to our theism, and I don’t even think you can hold that because now with the evidence we’re presenting here it has the empirical position is some kind of creator behind all the things.
Jason Hartman: Its interesting when we look at a few years back of course we had this massive popularity of the Secret and everybody was into The Secret, and they were talking about it, and that kind of thinking was really nothing new to me because back when I was in high school I mean I remember visualizing what I wanted like a new 4/4 pickup truck, and then it became reality and you know in studying the teachings of Dennis Waitley, Earl Nightingale, Jim Rohn, Zig Ziglar and of those people I just mentioned very diehard Christians they talked about this too, and they talked about how all the teachers of antiquity talked about it. But you identified some fallacies in The Secret. Some people on the Christian side say that such a cultish sort of craziness. I take bit of a middle ground I guess. What are your thoughts on it?
Jeff: Well, I think we — there’s a very specific bit about this in the Bible. I definitely think first of all The Secret that book is erroneous. It does not teach you how to do this power that’s my — I will tell why in a second. But the bible is pretty clear in this position is Jesus says in the Bible your faith can move that mountain and then in Genesis 1:26 it says you were created in God’s image. No verse after that says oh and after the fall you aren’t in god’s image anymore. No it says throughout the Bible like _____[ 0:15:15] 3:11, 1 Corinthians 3:9, it tells how we’re in god’s image. So, that means if we’re in gods image, then we’re supposed to be doing things that are god like in a way whether that’s showing love and compassion or maybe even things such as doing creation, okay and of course obviously in a much lesser degree dramatically lesser than the creator can do. So that’s why you have passages in the Bible where the woman touch Jesus robe to heal herself, and he turns — Jesus turns around and he doesn’t say I healed you. He says your faith has healed you. She did it, okay with her contacting of Jesus robe, and then there’s also in John 10:32 Jesus says we’re gods to the Jewish mob that these are very — there’s a lot of verses like there’s all throughout the Bible very, very clear that there’s something really special about humans. We are created in god’s image, and so therefore we must have some specific abilities that we’re apparently not aware of, and the churches are not apparently talking about that we need to start making use of in order to help our lives and change the world, and make the best world we can for ourselves and yes there — one of these powers is its maybe hard for you some of you to believe but this is verifiable. And it’s verified in the universities UCLA, Stanford several Russian universities I’m able to experience to verify this that your consciousness can influence reality not in the ordinary way. Usually what we do is we think something and use your hands to arrange really, no. Your consciousness can directly alter reality so the one example used in the book The Secret was if you want to increase the amount of your bank account there should be a mental technique were just by thinking in a certain way alone you can do it so it’s called telekinesis. Now The Secret makes a — I wrote a book called Telementations specifically in response to The Secret, and I don’t really say this in the book, but if you want the truth that’s why I wrote it because like you back in the 1990s I noticed some of these correlations I noticed when was in my most intense Buddhistic states if I had certain feelings in me, in those states those states would come about by certain deep feeling and meditation. If I would think about something it would come into existence. I noticed these amazing correlations so I knew that there was some kind of mental telekinesis going on where mind is creating things in the material world. Now, The Secret came out and I noticed in the book. In The Secret they talk about two techniques and they talk about the two specific techniques that do not work in doing this telekinetic mental manifest state, manifest in mental creation. They talk about visualization and belief. Okay those are the two that don’t work. What does work is there’s a specific deep feelings thing that every single one of you haven’t in you. It’s called the soul, and the soul is not some distant far-off concept. No it’s something that you can see and feel inside of yourself. There are moments if you just look inside of yourself for a little bit and find it. You know a lot of people think that’s spooky to look inside yourself or it’s impossible that there is a spooky domain in there because if you’re created in god’s image, you can look inside yourself, you’re looking at you so you’re looking at something that’s in god’s image. So it has to be the most wonderful thing if you look inside yourself, and at yourself. The self is connected to the creator so anyways what I was — as I was saying these deep feelings that we have in us which it takes me 100 pages to describe exactly how to find it. It’s actually quite easy once you do in the book, and then if you couple that with the very specific not the belief state, but with a knowing state. A belief state is a hoax state you know I believe that’s going to be true and so that’s sort of implied in that is actually is not true now, but maybe in the future or something like that so you’re basically telling yourself x is not true. All right now you need to do the opposite of that if you can couple this deep feeling state with a mental state of pure knowing that something caught actually want to be true is real. You can convince yourself in the shadow of doubt in your mind that it’s real. If you can do that, and couple that with this deep feeling state whatever you whatever is the product of that those thoughts that whatever x is will come into existence it’s the law of nature that if you do, that if you’re in that mental state whatever that mental state is about will exist soon after. I’ve seen this happened many times. You can become quite good at it. It’s incredibly powerful and it’s exactly what is discussed in the Bible and it’s discussed even more prevalently in Buddhist texts.
Jason Hartman: Let me take a brief pause. We will be back in just a minute.
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Jason Hartman: And Jeff give us a clue it in terms of how to get into that deep feeling state. Is it meditation? Is it the concept of super learning and using baroque classical music to calm the mind? I mean there’s a lot of teachers on this stuff and they say lot of similar, but sometimes different things. I mean just give us a hint. I know it takes a couple of 100 pages.
Jeff: Well, it takes a few 100 pages because I really said the same thing over and over him and but in different words I try to get people. They have different ways of looking at it, but to answer your question you just simply look inside yourself. What you do is you start noticing the way you are staying in the books you start noticing the way you feel okay. And then you feel one moment sad, the next moment happy, and you notice that you start doing something you’ve never done before in taking note of your feelings throughout the day a few times getting in communication with them. I understand that they exist, and then go a little deeper and if you go, if you keep examining inside yourself a little bit more you were very soon right near the surface find that there’s one feeling state behind all your feelings, and it doesn’t change, and its very intense. It’s almost like a tension inside of your, a very heightened feeling state it exist there right behind your surfacy feelings of sadness and happiness and so forth. That’s it. You just look inside yourself and find it, and the reason I go through for a 100 pages because I find different ways to explain it so the people can know what there, what it is when they are looking for it. And the point is that you don’t go far at all. You just look inside yourself a bit. You find this — it’s an unchanging state of almost tension like intense feeling, but if you are going into a little bit. It should — it will relax you. You feel in lifting up towards happiness and so forth because this is — its this — when you first contacted, it’s the surface of your soul and I called the feeling mass in my book that the term I got from the philosopher named Eugene Gendlin who taught at in the Chicago area years ago so that’s really all you do is nothing magical about it. That’s what I criticize The Secret for us. They have — they don’t give specific instructions on how to do this stuff. They just say oh just believe it, and visualize it, and if you don’t get it in five minutes you should get in five minutes, and its crazy if you don’t. No this is — this takes a little bit of practice. I say in the book you know give yourself a month and try to figure this out because if you do, you can change your whole life.
Jason Hartman: I think to some extent The Secret and those concepts like that has given people an excuse to be lazy. The Bible tells us that faith without works is dead. I mean it does take effort. You can’t just think it only and so, so that’s a good point. Hey tell us about Jeff the connection hundred eight tells about just the connection between your telementation and I don’t know if you fully define that term so may be you want to define that for the listeners and cause and effect if you would.
Jeff: Oh yeah very good. Yeah telementation is the title of my book which is available on Amazon.com, and it’s aboard I got from author named Atkinson who wrote a book called Thought Vibration back in the 1920s. I never liked — usually people call what’s in The Secret the law of attraction are extremely poor word choice. It’s not what’s going on. The law of attraction implies things are coming. You’re attracting things to you, and also the theosophical society made up that term and I have big problems with the theosophical society as well, but I thought the term telementation was much better it implies tele at a distance mentation mind so your mind moves out at the distance and spreads around and changes the world that’s why when you study these experience in the lab such as they did at Stanford University, a professor Tiller just to give one example and Valerie Hunt at UCLA did some interesting work on this. It — what it seems to happen is the mind expands out rather than whatever the law of attraction might need, so telementation I think it’s a really good word, and I just wanted to make a clean break from The Secret and all the stuff, and give it a word and make so everybody knows that the word telementation is based on a feeling state, a very specific one not a belief state so it sort of a lot of people emailed me. I can’t believe that telementation saved my grandmother or telementation made my — I got my migraine headache problem to go away or my daughter is now cleaning the room. I got that to happen. And then as yesterday somebody said this is the answer I have been looking for. I emailed back this person, and is said exactly this is it. I mean we can solve a lot of our problems in life by something we’ve always had and which is right in our religious texts. I mean its — you were talking a little while ago about how science you know science versus religion there’s only and I think I was sensing where you going and it is that science and religion are only at odds with each other and you got bogus science and bogus religion okay. When you have just pure empirical study science and religion completely merge, and that’s a big thing that people don’t get I mean when you have pure empiricism you know philosophies like the philosophy of evolution, philosophy of the big bang these things go away because they’re not empirical. You don’t have — there’s no experimental evidence. There’s no observational evidence that evolution happened that the big bang happened and so forth. You just use the pure scientific concepts of I can measure the distance for myself to a star, and that’s an empirical claim to say further oh that star came into existence 15 billion years ago or four million years ago or whatever by some theoretical formula I mean to come with that, that’s not empirical. So a strict empiricist like myself throws that away. The empirical perspective the most successful one in determining what is real and what’s not real interestingly involves this amazing merging between science and religion. There’s another — it’s a different world when we just use our senses and use our experience that we have been given by god and you throw away really in a sense a lot of the cultural constructs that we’ve been given and we’ve been told about. Most people live their lives going around conceptualizing and living to what they have been told. How few people just go around believing in what they experience so it’s I mean think about we’ve got this wars and so forth that we’re in. Think of if people said no, I don’t want to believe that there is a threat in Iraq for example or in Afghanistan. I want somebody to show it to me, because nobody ever did show. We’re told there was weapons of mass destruction and so that was never verified so imagine if we’re a world of empiricist. How many more people would be alive? How much less spending that would’ve been on these wars? How many less people would’ve been killed? It just would have been a completely different scenario so empiricism and philosophy is a life and death issue. It’s so big.
Jason Hartman: Yeah it and I couldn’t agree more. That’s true. What about your Swiss watch theory. You have this theory that you’ve discussed about Swiss watch theory of the universe. I mean what is that?
Jeff: Okay yeah that’s related to what you were asking because I can go about also cause and effect. Basically what I’ve done and this stretches into my academic work. I published quite heavily in professional philosophy journals and some of the best ones in the world and some of my — what I’m about to answer is in some of those journals which I’m really excited about some very new empirical findings and good logical analysis, but the world — we’re told that the world is random okay well this is just thrown at us when we are five years old, and we do this everywhere. We’re just given this philosophy of randomness. We start to believe everything is random. The best of our life are random if I sub my toe is just a random events. If things don’t go well for me and my life I don’t make good money or something its just the way the ball bounces people say. All of this is just a wild philosophy called fatalism which has no empirical basis for. If you ask the University Professor to say, hey Mr. Mrs. Professor you, in your social science class your economics or anthropology or psychology class you seem to imply things random. You know the particles in the physics class is just random particle interactions we’re told. Can somebody please verify for me that this is all random and you could say to the physicist I really want you to verify that this is random because the first quantum chaos pattern that anybody ever found which is the one I referred to that, it was discover a year ago exhibited the golden ratio so that’s anything but random so where does all those randomness philosophy come from. And every single one of these professors will not have a single to say because if we you and I look closely at the world all of our experiences point towards a completely non-random reality. There’s — everywhere there’s design exhibited. There’s all kinds of patterns in our life. There’s deep patterns. You know in John 1:1 it says in the beginning it was the word, and there’s all kinds of very clandestine mathematical system which show that there is so much more mathematical coding to our reality than we could ever imagine. Fractal theory in professional academia and chaos theory is certainly going to uncover this. You can predict just by patterns and numbers when the war is going to happen in 30 years, what the stock market is going to do in eight months. There’s so much going on. There’s absolutely nothing random. Our world is not random and although most the time people say oh this means that we’re not free than if things — if everything is locked in place and there’s no randomness then we can’t — we don’t have the free will to exercise and the reality that is absolutely false its when you have the non-random reality sorry when you have the random reality that’s when you can’t control anything because everything is just random so you can’t make non-random and bring events in your control for example so no its actually the cosmos which is has telementation exhibited, and were the creator events happened around us because we create them. That’s not a random event. The basis of the Swiss watch theory this non-random universe is anchored in the concept of telementation. We’re all telementing events in our life whether we know it or not. The point of telementation is just to bring this in the conscious control steer events as we create them with our deep feelings as we want them to exist rather than just having them happen and a lot of times we live lives of fear. So inadvertently, or without knowing it telementationally create a world of fear in and less desirable than we would want say the least because we’re just spontaneously without knowing that our inner conscious is brining this kind of world. The whole point here is that, there is a world this is carefully designed by ourselves and by god to the most minute degree that’s a Swiss watch theory in one sense. The world is a designed world and then the evidence for this is dramatic. Its everywhere. Its in all kinds of different levels, all kinds of different perspectives. Everywhere we look, we find this Craig: correlations and synchronicities and design, and that’s freedom because it’s all coming from this process of mind creating matter whether its the mind of god creating matter of the universe or it’s the mind of humans creating the matter of their immediate environment.
Jason Hartman: Are you familiar with holographic brain theory?
Jeff: Yes Pribram?
Jason Hartman: Yeah so yeah Karl Pribram at Stanford University. I studied that years ago, and I was just fascinated by it. That seems to be very in line with The Secret and I mean in light of what you told us today what do you think about holographic brain theory?
Jeff: Well, yeah I agree with it. Stan Grof is another one who is studied that as well. Basically they are you know telling you that certain powers of your consciousness are not isolated to the various aspects of the brain. Consciousness is — there’s many ways to discover like consciousness is not an aspect of the brain. It’s a real power that somehow is not correlated with the brain. If I ask you show me where consciousness is in the brain. The average person will point to the Encephalogram reading of your brain activity and say ah, right there. When you think about moving your hands, the top part of your brain lights up and I will say no, no. That’s not consciousness. That’s neural activity you know neurons firing and that’s just matter and flesh and so forth. Show me where consciousness is, where is love, where is the thought two plus two equals four. Show me this stuff in the brain and you never can do it because its not in the brain because the brain is a fractal hologram were inside the little piece of the brain exists — sorry inside the piece of the consciousness exist the whole consciousness and its completely different way of thinking than the material. We used to thinking of the world in terms of material perspective things are solid and they exit through time through cause-and-effect so forth. None of these actually — these are all just ideas. If you someone to verify the philosophy of cause-and-effect. They can’t do it. They will point to some vague correlations you know if I drop the pen on the desk like this just there makes the noise, so drop and noise follow each other so but other than that the world is not — the driver of the world is not cause-and-effect, cause-and-effect is driven by the holographic consciousness which has this dramatic power over and above the brain.
Jason Hartman: Yeah fascinating. In wrapping up here connect us if you would. You said an interesting to me before Jeff that you fell that when you got back into the church. I don’t know if you’re actually a member of the church.
Jeff: Yeah I go to a Presbyterian Church.
Jason Hartman: And you’re a Christian?
Jeff: Yeah.
Jason Hartman: So when you got back into it, and you kind of came back around, you kind of merged a lot of your thinking during your foray with Buddhism into that and you found a lot of similarities between Christianity and the Sermon on the Mount and the teachings of Buddhism. I think most people would think those are very different and those are polar opposites they would say you’re either a Christian or you might believe in eastern religions but those two do not coexist. Tell us your thoughts about that?
Jeff: Yeah this is a big topic. Its just standard for Buddhists or academics who study these topics or religion professors. They Christianity and Buddhism are the opposite because Buddhist professed themselves to be atheists and Christians don’t. Now, the problem is this with that — this is all incorrect. Christianity says that there is an omnipresence god which is light which is omnipresence like I said is everywhere which has an interact with your deepest thoughts and feelings that Jason you and I can’t see. Okay the average person can’t see, but somehow this force, the same force that that creates everything can hear your thoughts. Now, that’s amazing now that’s Christianity. Now, look at losing Buddhism here. Buddhism says there is something called Nirvana which is behind all things responsible for craving all things its light and you can — it has interaction with your deepest thoughts and feelings. Okay now that’s the same thing. This is just one example. This is the exact same philosophy just in this the quick way we were describing here. Now how can we — usually well the person will say is oh Buddhist say they’re atheist and Christian say they are not so therefore the religions are opposite. You know that’s much, much too simplistic. Its not if you look at what they say they are saying the exact same thing, and its not just as far as their deep metaphysics about reality. If you take, if you go read the principles of some of the early Buddhist its exactly the same thing that Jesus used to say in the Sermon on the Mount. Take the plank, got to be your own eye before you take the spec out of your brothers. You love thy enemy. Its all the things. This is the best stuff that’s ever been written, and I just would love to see the whole world take this on because this is what makes everybody happy. So yeah to answer your question though I think I hold the sort of controversial theory I don’t know how much empirical evidence I have for to if any, but I think Buddhism was Christianity at some point a 1500 years ago or something or maybe 2500 years ago and the two Buddhism somehow disintegrated in various ways and they stopped the theistic element of it because if you just added that Nirvana has is the personal entity in certain ways because it could contact your thoughts, and interaction with your thoughts well, then its Buddhism becomes Christianity right there.
Jason Hartman: Very interesting. Jeff tell the listeners where they can get the books and find out more.
Jeff: You can get any of my books at Amazon. I’ve got three that I’ve written and Telementation is the well I think is the most exciting one and I’ve got a website which is called antimatterradio.com.
Jason Hartman: Antimatterradio.com.
Jeff: Yes.
Jason Hartman: Excellent. Hey Jeff Grupp thank you so much for joining us today and we appreciate the insights.
Jeff: I really appreciate you having me here. Thank you.
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The Solomon Success Team
Transcribed by: Renee